Since this seems to be of interest, I thought I'd just go ahead and post the
news clipping. This article seems to provide a balanced view of the whole
deal, but it seems to be just more evidence of how destructive the last thirty
years of standards-lowering in the name of inclusiveness has been. One fair-
testing advocate, Monty Neill, implies that caring is more important than
something as meaningless as possession of basic language skills. I think this
is pretty outrageous. A few days after this news story, Massachusetts
education commissioner Frank Haydu III resigned and the state Board of
Education voted to reinstate the original standard. The Associated Press is
reporting now that 59 percent of 2,000 prospective teachers have failed this
test. Hope the length of this post doesn't annoy anyone.

~Todd Denney, college freshman hoping someday to be able to read and write
well enough (or should that be "good enough"?) to teach high school English
(or is that "english"?)

ASPIRING TEACHERS FAIL MASS. TEST
JEAN McMILLAN Associated Press Writer

BOSTON (AP) - So many aspiring educators flunked Massachusetts' first basic
reading-and-writing test for teachers that officials graded them on a curve,
and now some are wondering whether dumb bureaucrats are promoting dumb
teachers.

The Board of Education voted this week to adjust the passing grade to reduce
the number of those who failed from 56 percent to 44 percent - prompting
outrage from acting Gov. Paul Cellucci and others.

House Speaker Thomas Finneran said he has seen the tests, which were not
released, and was appalled to see candidates couldn't ``define a noun or a
verb or what democracy means or the meaning of the word `imminent.'''

He called the people who failed and those who gave them degrees ``idiots.''

Cellucci predicted Friday that the decision to change the passing number would
be reversed at the board's meeting next week and the roughly 260 people who
benefited would be made to retake the test.

Education Commissioner Frank W. Haydu III said he recommended the lower
standard because the test had never been given before.

``No matter where we set the bar, we are significantly raising standards for
prospective teachers to gain certification,'' he said Friday in a statement.

Cellucci also called for testing of all current teachers out of concern that
there are ``perhaps thousands of teachers who are in the classroom today who
are not meeting the standards.

Until this spring, Massachusetts was one of only seven states that did not
require teachers to pass a test to qualify for certification.

The Department of Education released a sample of the exam, which Board of
Education Chairman John Silber said seemed to be at about an eighth-grade
level.

The samples showed some test-takers, when trying to rewrite sentences,
misspelled words a 9-year-old could spell - even though the words were right
in front of them. Some wrote at a fifth- or sixth-grade level. Many wrote
sentences lacking both nouns and verbs.

Roberta Whitney, a former teacher who has two children, ages 6 and 3, said the
standard should have remained where it was. ``As a parent, I would feel better
with a teacher who has passed the exam.''

Despite the outcry, some question the way the tests were administered and
whether they are relevant.

``Students and their parents and the community have a right to expect
competent, caring teachers. The question is if this test has anything to do
with that,'' said Monty Neill, executive director of FairTest, a Cambridge-
based assessment and testing reform advocacy organization.

He said he had not seen the Massachusetts test but said the group is skeptical
of many teacher tests because ``much of what is tested is pretty irrelevant
for teaching.''

Cellucci's proposal immediately drew criticism from Kathy Kelley, president of
the Massachusetts Federation of Teachers, one of the state's two major
teachers unions.

``It's a political year and generally in a political year, taking potshots at
teachers becomes great sport,'' she said.

Teachers originally were told the test was being used to set a baseline and
would not be counted against them. Board members who voted in favor of
lowering the threshold said they were doing so in part to prevent lawsuits
based on the lack of advance warning.

Those who failed will be allowed to take the test again in July. When the
results are released in August, state officials plan to announce which
colleges produced which test scores.

All this talk of teacher testing makes my stomach hurt (much the way it
ached when I was forced to take the PPST and the ACT and the NTE).
I could ace an English test, but brother, I couldn't possibly pass a
math test.  I can balance my checkbook and convert a recipe and put my
grades into a computer which not only averages, but also gives me the
mean, median, mode, standard deviation, T-scores and Z-scores.  I even
know what to do with all that information.  However, if I had to find
the area of my living room or figure out how many fenceposts would be
needed to enclose a ten acre space, I would be up that proverbial creek
without a paddle in a wire canoe.  I can't see how these tests are
relevant for *ALL* teachers.  I don't have to know fenceposts to discuss
Whitman.  Whose idea is this, anyway?  What is the point?

Sherry Godsey

      For example, back in 1975, Philadelphia Public Schools put out an
ad for a mass hiring.  Being curious, I submitted an application and was
called in for interview (along with several hundred other applicants).  A
production line had been set up.  I was ushered into a room with 50 other
people, and we were issued paper and a ditto sheet.  With no other
explanation of purpose or process, we were told to "Read the sheet, and
write something related to it; the purpose will become evident during your
later interview."  I picked a topic and wrote some first thought as if
this were some sort of psychological profiling.
      Later in the afternoon, I was called in for an interview.  Two
people who didn't introduce themselves pulled out the paper I had written
earlier and began to grade it in front of me.  After a compliment on the
critical thought (?), they began critiquing the "superfluous
organization", "odd use of grammatical convention", and "bloated
vocabulary". They then announced that "If this were written in a tenth
grade class, it would fail."  This was my first indication from anyone
that they were trying to fill tenth grade English slots.
     My point is that during the process, no one had really given proper
instructions, and the focus of the process was kept from applicants;  the
results were meaningless.  When I hear of other venues with high failure
rates on teacher exams, I reason that the failure was programmed by poor
process.
     In other words, the test may have failed rather than the teachers.

    Chet Pryor__Professor & Testing Coordinator__Montgomery College
    Germantown, Maryland

I do not have a copy but I know it asked for a definition for a noun and
a verb.  The newspaper article said that they curved the scores.  That
is difficult to believe.  But then I too have not seen the test or a
"real" copy of the results.

paking

Since each state has different teaching requirements, can someone explain what
is on this test and who takes it? All prospective teachers or just prospective
English teachers? Here in CA you have to pass the CBEST before teaching any
class which is a basic skills test. Is the MA test similar? Or is it a test
similar the NTE which is much more difficult than a basic skills test?

Thanks for the info.
Connie H.

Sherry,

 I almost always agree with you, but we're on different sides of the
test issue today.  If I could hand pick all my daughter's teachers- in
all subjects- I would pick those with broad-based liberal arts educations.
I want her teachers to be well-read, well-spoken, able to hold an
intelligent, well-informed discussion on a variety of topics.  I want
her English teachers to also be able to do basic math (and the problems you
presented: fence posts and sq. ft. in living room WERE basic math) and
be creative problem solvers.  I want her math and science teachers to
expect her to write coherently and to know what to do when she doesn't.
I would assume that a teacher enters the profession because of a deep and
abiding concern for young people and an ability to create a rapport that
shows a caring nature.  I'm not sure this can be taught in college.  But
a test may be needed to ensure that potential teachers have the background
of experience and knowledge to guide others without commiting educations
(sorry- educational) malpractice.  Case in point:  Ohio has no test.  Some
districts require the NTE, but not all.  Last year a teacher in my dept.
asked me to explain what a metaphor was and were there any other of those
poetry things that 9th graders needed to know.  She had 5 years of full-
time teaching under her belt.  She did her student teaching in our school
and her cooperating teacher did NOT recommend her for a position.  she was
hired in the major system to our immediate west and when a new principal
came to our school, he brought her along with him.  No test required.
Now we're stuck with her.  And don't I have a crummy attitude?  (By the way,
I help her as much as I can, but she's not the type to ask often.)

Peggy Smith
Cleveland Hts. HS

In Illinois prospective teachers must pass a Basic Skills test -- English,
math, etc (I can't remember what else is on that part). These p-teachers must
also pass a subject area test -- in the area of major or specialty only. If a
p-teacher's area is art, she/he has to pass the art test but can still teach
English or any otehr subject in which the p-teacher has the required hours.
I remember that the Basic Skills test was embarassingly easy -- and I thought
that anyone who did not pass it on the first try should never be given a
teaching certificate (yes, I had to do math but only had to fill in numbers
since the formulas were given).
The subject matter test was difficult, though. Very "nit-picky."

Although I agree that all teachers are not necessarily teachers of English, I
do believe that all teachers should be literate and should evidence the
ability to write and read proficiently.  I am often appalled by the lack of
background student teachers in English have in effective writing skills  and
in an understanding of the mechanics/usage of the language.  I want teachers
in my department who can "practice what they preach."
In a time when we are trying to promote writing across the curriculum, I
believe that teachers in all content areas should be able to assess acceptable
writing.  Although I would agree that content area teachers need not be able
to recognize and name gerund phrases, for example, I do believe that theses
teachers should be able to recognize faulty sentence structure or incoherent
paragraphing.    I also believe that they should be creating materials which
show their students good writing.  I guess you might call me an "elitist," but
I think that proper usage/mechanics should be everyone's job---especially at
the elementary level.
I, too, would be interested in seeing the Mass. test, but I must say that I am
very often amazed at the people who are receiving college degrees.  I wonder
how they were able to produce the papers, essay tests, etc. which I thought
colleges were still requiring.  I wonder if the test is "picky" or valid?  If
anyone has information, please post.
Mary Ann Black

Peggy,
I can't disagree that teachers with solid liberal arts backgrounds would
be first on my list when choosing teachers for my own kids.  However,
just because I can't remember how to figure the area of a room without
looking it up in an old textbook doesn't mean I am a bad English
teacher.  Like many skills, if you don't use it, you lose it.  I never
figure the area of my living room, so I can't do it right off the top of
my head.  I passed the NTE with flying colors (including the math part
under General Knowledge) when I was straight out of college, but that
was 1000 research papers ago.  As I said in  my post, I can balance my
checkbook, convert a recipe and do all that grade stuff because I do it
every day.
I usually agree with you, too, but not here.  I still say testing
teachers out of subject area is a questionable practice--especially
teachers who didn't just graduate from college.
Sherry

Karen,

I don't know how students make it through college without being able to
construct a reasonable sentence, but they do.  My Advanced Composition
course is proof.  We had to do a class project that involved writing 2-page
essays about trips we had taken.  Several of the essays exhibited the use of
such poor writing skills that the papers should have been dumped.  This was
a 400 level course!

What's the answer?

Yvette

Without attempting to muddy the waters, I have to interject that NTE testing
is required of people changing jobs even though they have been teachers and
out of college for some time. I  When I moved from VA to NJ I had to take the
National Teachers' Exam having been out of college for 18 years.  It hadn't
been required (even invented) when I started teaching in '70.   I hadn't had a
math course in over 20 years!  Still, I was very current in English and,
luckily, NJ required testing only in my certification area.  Few of us could
pass a test on a subject we hadn't taken in 20 years.  School subjects are
"use it or lose it" knowledge.  I can understand testing people who have just
studied something, but imagine if the states required those already with jobs
to take it.  Could all of us pass in academic areas we haven't used in 20
years?

Mary Filak

The Massachusetts teacher test was given to students who were graduating from
college teacher-education programs (current college seniors).  It was not
given to teachers already in the field.

What really got to me in the news story is that teachers misspelled/miscopied
words that were right in front of them and wrote "sentences" that did not
contain a subject or verb.  (Some sentences they wrote contained neither!!)

I think it is reasonable to assume that many of these test-takers were
elementary ed majors who would be teaching all subjects.  My sons are college-
age now, but if they would have had teachers in elementary school who lacked
basic writing skills, I would have put them in other schools or demanded
different teachers.  Many others who took the test were likely prospective
teachers of math, science, art, music, phys ed, and vocational studies.  I
don't think it would be unreasonable to expect these people to be able to
write a complete sentence or to accurately copy the spelling of words that
were right in front of them.  Sure, teachers should be caring and
compassionate, but they should be literate, too.

There was no mention of math testing (or testing in any other subject area) in
this licensing exam.  I'd be curious as to whether this was simply a literacy
test.
How can we find out more about the test?

How are people this illiterate even getting into college, must less
graduating?

Karen
(who is really proud today because youngest son scored a 5 on the AP English
exam!)

Mary,

  I graduated high school 30 years ago.  My last math class was
Alg. II and Trig in 11th grade.  I would have a serious anxiety attack
if I knew that I would be tested on that material today.  Heck, I can't
even remember clearly what I disliked so intensely about _American
Pastoral_ when I read it last summer and why I wouldn't recommend it.
My long term memory is as fuzzy as anyone else's of "a certain age".
But the outcry related to the Mass. test seems to be related to an issue
of very basic competence.  I would really like to see a copy of that test.
Just like our students, we need to hold ourselves up to a higher standard
than just basic competence.  The long-term consequences of mediocrity are
just too scary.

Peggy Smith
 

There are many factors to consider when trying to
understand either the reasons for the low scores on this test, or
the eventual consequences of it.  When Karen (WAKEUPMAN) wonders
about whether these test-takers were prospective elementary,
middle or high school teachers, she makes a good point.  The
expectations of each of these groups would be different.  One
assumes that the person hankering to teach the first grade has
not concerned him/herself in college with mastering the uses of
the subjunctive mood. Instead, he/she might have been more
concerned with recognizing the symptoms of the early stages of
some learning difficulty.
 We might also take into consideration the pool of potential
teachers. Ours is not a profession that has been held in the
highest regard in the last couple of decades. We can't delude
ourselves that ever since "A Nation at Risk" that teachers and
school systems have been viewed as the soul of America's future.
One look at how budgets get shot down year after year should give
us an indication of how unattractive this field can be. I believe
that such a perception influences the number and kind of
candidates who are thinking about entering the profession.
 If the above is true, I wonder what the further impact of this
test will be. More than half of the test-takers (59%) will not be
granted certification. Of the remainder, how many will stay in
the field?  Will the test requirement further dissuade college
students from entering the field? (I remember looking primarily
at grad schools back in 1976 that did *not* require the GREs
simply because I was much too busy to bone up for them.)
 As I noted in an earlier post, we need lots of data before we
can accurately surmise what these scores actually mean. Having
said that, I am going to speculate on part of this controversy.
My guess is that the long-term effects of these test results will
be considerable.  Several important MA politicians who were
previously unabashed supporters of teachers and teacher unions
have gone on the offensive.  And I think teachers had better get
used to it.  Everything, as they say, is on the table -- tenure
is up for grabs, along with merit pay and regular testing of
current teachers. I'm not sure in how many states these things
already exist, but it is perhaps inevitable that the number will
grow.
 Is this necessarily a bad thing? Personally, I think not. But
only if teachers become willing partners in this. If we look at
the nation's cities for a parallel, we might understand. City
after city is reporting lower crime rates...nationally, it's down
for the 6th straight year. This is significant, very significant.
Why did this happen? Well, Rudy Guiliani of NYC would have us
believe *he's* the reason, but the last time I looked, he wasn't
the mayor of Chicago or Denver or Boston.
 Rather, people in the neighborhoods generally began cooperating
with police and vice-versa. I grew up in Charlestown, MA, once
notorious for its "code of silence" when it came to home-grown
criminals.  The code is dead, partly due to the residents' anger,
partly due to changing demographics.
 I wonder if we can achieve the same thing. If we became willing
to "police our own neighborhoods" by removing the barriers to the
elimination of bad and incompetent teachers, then I believe the
cooperation we can expect from the public at large in other areas
(censorship, budgetary considerations) will improve.

Kevin

Karen,
      One of the students finishing first year composition in our
summer-session 1 evening college wrote a scathing essay comparing our
college with her own school (her home is here, but she had just finished
one semester of freshman comp. at a large midwestern university).  She
raved about the networked English classrooms at her university, the modern
interactive softwares, the ease of composing in such environments, and
spell and grammar checkers and on-line help for students with problems.
With great antipathy, she contrasted our college which requires
impromptus to be handwritten in class, has only one writing center for the
entire college, and requires students to pass a barrier essay.  Having
reviewed the work in her portfolio, I would agree the student was
completely lost, almost disabled, outside her computer-mediated
environment.
      I'm led to think that a student who can only write in a
computer-mediated environment with on-line help might have great deal of
difficulty with a standardized basic-skills test such as the MA. Teacher's
Test.
      Could we have gone too far with computer-mediated writing
environments?

    Chet Pryor__Professor & Testing Coordinator__Montgomery College

Chet brings up an interesting point.  I sometimes teach night composition
classes at the local college and find students unable to spot errors while
peer editing.  I know that their at-home work is enhanced by technology, and
in a test situation, some would have a lot more trouble with the language than
those of us who learned to write without technology to help.  Like Kevin
Collins, I'm a former Mass. Eng. teacher and also don't like to speculate on
the test without seeing it.  I have written email to a friend who still
teaches there, hoping for some background, but what about all the Mass.
educators who must be lurking on this list?  What are your feelings?  MKVET
and others, are you there?

Shatzie2

Chet,
Your account of the student who could not write ouside of her computer
environment reminds me of something a good friend of mine said.  She is a
librarian in an elementary school in a well-to-do district here in Ohio.  Most
of the students at her school have home computers and are comfortable using
the library computers almost from the beginning.  Yet, they often struggle
with the printed word in books.  She is convinced that our new computer age is
also the birth of a new wave of illiteracy.  She even struggles to get these
young children to read the wealth of children's literature because they would
rather work on the computers.
Both she and I are great fans of computers, so her comment (and my relaying of
her comment) are not meant to downplay the wonder of this electronic tool.
When I was a child in the 1950's, my parents (who were voracious readers),
worried that television would draw me away from books, so they made a
conscious effort to read to me, take me to the public library, buy me books,
and turn off the TV for all but a few shows.  How many parents today do this?
  I already blame the lack of reading background and skills in my HS juniors
on cable TV and Nintendo (and the parents who chose these over books for their
children).  If the seven and eight year olds of today need a computer--rather
than a well-done picture book--to excite them, what huge gaps will exist in
their literary education in another eight years when they are in high school?
It is mind-boggling.

Karen

Well said, Kevin.  However, a problem that is perhaps more difficult to
surmount than you know involves your suggestion to '"police our won
neighborhoods" by removing the barriers to the elimination of bad and
incompetent teachers.'  You're talkin' union-busting here and in my
district them's fightin' words, pal.  I believe you teach in an
independent school, don't you?  In some public schools "Solidarity
Forever" isn't just a slogan- it's a lifeline.

Peggy Smith

Peggy Smith wrote:
...a problem that is perhaps difficult to surmount
[in your suggestion] would involve...union-busting and in my
district them's fightin' words...

   God forbid I would ever let such a sentiment pass my lips, or
my keyboard as it were. In fact, my suggestion was meant to stave
off such a situation. (In fact, my post was intended purely as a
mental exercise and I have no illusions that it would take hold.)
True, I'm a teacher in an independent school I don't deal with
these concerns but is self-regulation really tantamount to
union-busting?  I may need a primer here...

   Quite honestly, my suggestion was predicated on the idea that
self-regulation would have just the opposite effect.  You have to
understand, the loss of the support of Sen. John Kerry and Mass.
House Speaker Finneran (both liberal Dems) is nothing short of
phenomenal.  What IF the states mandate rigid regs and they wind
up with the support of both the Federal courts and the public?
PATCO would never have gone down if they'd had the support of the
public...

Just wondering.

Kevin

I took the General Knowledge NTE in '91 along with the English NTE. In NJ
the General Knowledge exam is required for Elementary certification. It was
a joke! If you were awake in college or HS for that matter, you were
guaranteed to pass! BTW--I managed to get through college w/o ever taking a
math course, and in HS all I ever took was bookkeeping!

A sample of the reading section was published in the Boston Globe last week.
You might be able to get it online.  The state is purposely not releasing the
test.  Part of the problem is that teachers in Massachusetts haven't been
informed about what is on the test.

A friend of mine from New Hampshire sent me an e-mail in which she told me
that the MA teacher test contained no math.  It was a reading/writing test
only.  There were about 2,000 college seniors taking the test.  She said her
newspaper printed some of the questions, and she had no trouble answering them
correctly.  My friend, who is employed as a social worker, was not an English
major.

Karen

Good Morning Kevin -

I read your post rather late last night, but the quoted passage startled me -
definitely got my attention.  As a department chair, I do not have the power
of evaluation, but I am held accountable (in various fashions) for everything
and EVERYONE in my department.  But, I did not hire the teachers in my
department - the administration did.  I am concerned about the self-regulation
aspect because unions do not have the power to hire.  That responsibility and
power rests with the superintendent and the school committee.  Hence,
evaluation should rest with them also.  The union's function, in part,  is to
ensure due process - not to keep "bad" teachers, but to make sure that the
same fair and detailed process happens for each individual.  Teachers can be
dismissed if a series of evidences are in place.  But too often, the
administration builds a faulty case, and/or tramples on the rights of the
individual teacher.  I believe that unions have a vested interest to have the
best people hired and to have on-going professional develop to promote growth,
that teachers should serve on screening committees and that teacher contracts
should address professional development expectations.  But self-regulation
requires empowerment, and again, unions don't hire (at least they don't here).

Just a few thoughts.  As a former union vice-president, I was present when a
teacher was told by the principal "nothing personal, and I really like you,
but we are not renewing your contract for next year."  On behalf of that
teacher, I filed five grievances, all of which went to arbitration.  Recently
I had an opportunity to say to that principal, "Nothing personal, and I really
like you, but the union just won its fifth arbitration."

Always -
 Annie

Annie:
   I'm a bit surprised that anything I wrote was startling,
perhaps it became so because threads tend to fragment as they
develop...one responds only to one part of response and so on
until we end up communicating in Newspeak. The question posed in
my original post had to do with a larger *systemic* development,
and came out of a rather complex series of thoughts.  Perhaps
they bear repeating here in another form.
   What is happening in MA has led to a radical realignment of
traditional alliances among teachers and politicians. This shift
is incredibly significant, and downplaying its effect on these
long-standing arrangements would be, I think, a mistake. God
knows what the results will be...I doubt it will be the status
quo.  In order to make predictions about what *might* happen as a
result of this shift (not to be confused with what I think
*ought* to happen), I looked for parallel developments in other
areas. One area that has fascinated me is the huge drop in crime
rates (after years of epidemic levels) in almost every major city
in this country, and how these drops were "achieved."
   Unfortunately, things like stats and trends don't normally
interest people, partly because they occur over long periods of
time and involve numbers rather than anecdotes. However, in some
circumstances, they are more accurate than stories, albeit not as
powerful (let me also say here that I am a strong believer in the
power of myth as well, but that's another issue).  For instance,
if one were to say that "NYC cops are better than they used to
be," someone might respond "oh yeah?  look at that poor Haitian
fellow who was abused in jail."  If I pull out a series of
numbers in response to that one anecdote, I'm a bore. The
anecdotal evidence is always more compelling than stats even if
it doesn't reflect the overall situation accurately.
   Anyway, one thing that has bothered me about the drop in crime
has been that *individuals* like Mayor Rudy Guiliani attempt to
point to their own leadership as the cause. I think it is more
likely that a new system of interrelationships between cops,
criminals, neighbors and other groups (which replaced the mutual
distrust of the 1980's) are closer to the root of this welcome
trend.
   This being the case, I am forced to wonder if a similar series
of compromises and alliances might benefit teachers, students,
schools and communities. The unspoken part of my original post
(which I mistakenly assumed to be understood) is that the first
response on the part of legislatures and the public to the MA
test scores may well be regulations that amount to virtual
punitive measures.  This would be followed by resistance on the
part of teachers, followed by a further erosion of the
relationship between "us and them." Not a situation any of us
wants to see.
   As it stands now, there's a lot of political mileage to be
gotten out of teacher bashing, just as it was for Rudy Guiliani
to be the "law and order" mayor.  But the truth about educational
reform is that if it's going to happen, it's probably going to
require the kind of relationships that were formed over the past
six years in America's crime-ridden neighborhoods. To what degree
the willingness of ordinary folks to "drop a dime" on some local
criminal was pivotal is an important consideration.  Certainly,
that's more effective than increased law enforcement and more
cops bashing more kids over the skull.
   And I would like to think that this kind of relationship at
the school level would be more effective than the state Board of
Ed bashing teachers over their skulls with increased regulations
and testing.
   Now to your point, which is a good one: the empowerment of
unions in the hiring process. Why not? Sounds good to me. If you
are vested in every stage rather than just parts of it, then it's
possible to make compromises and establish relationships.
Otherwise, it's Freddy Prinze' "not my yob."
   As I stated in my second (or third) post, perhaps I need a
primer on union-admin relationships. But horror stories abound on
all sides, and all I'm hypothesizing about is a way to minimize
them because I know that NO system will eliminate them.
   More than anything else, it's important to remember that I am
in no position to do anything...I'm just posing questions, making
connections, suggesting scenarios, and speculating on cause,
effect and systemic change.  It's what I do for a living,
sometimes on-line, usually in a classroom...and it's always fun
at the very least.

Kevin

In a message dated 98-07-04 11:36:20 EDT, you write:

<<  don't know how students make it through college without being able to
 construct a reasonable sentence, but they do.  My Advanced Composition
 course is proof.  We had to do a class project that involved writing 2-page
 essays about trips we had taken.  Several of the essays exhibited the use of
 such poor writing skills that the papers should have been dumped.  This was
 a 400 level course!
 
 What's the answer?
Yvette-

What grade did you give the above mentioned essays?  At the high school level
we try to inforce standards, but I can tell you that students who came close
to failing (and in one case did fail and not graduate) still got accepted to
college despite poor writing skills. There are times I want to tell some
students, "If they ask where you went to high school, tell them ............
(rival school across town)."   I'm sure they're accepted for the bucks, but we
don't send them out with glowing report cards!  Please help us uphold
standards by not accepting obviously inferior work.  Some (not all) of these
students can do better than their first effort.

Shatzie2

Kevin -

I have carefully read your post, and I believe that you and I share similar
ideas on reform - that a collective approach among the many stake holders is
what is necessary.  Real, meaningful change is serious, scary stuff that takes
time.  And, I appreciate your analogy regarding crime - it fits education.
Much "reform" is really a knee jerk reaction to an immediate - the latest
student test scores, the latest teacher test scores, an infusion of money from
some source, etc.

If I asked each member of this list serve to define or describe "professionalism
in English teaching", I am sure that there would be enormous differences as
well as common threads.  I know for me remaining "current" in the field is
important, but I also know that what is "current" today (excluding technology)
was probably current twenty years ago (example: when I was in the 7th grade
large blocks of flexible time was all the rage; today, we call that "block
scheduling".  Colleagues just out of college believe that this concept is a
new invention).  We need to be careful not to be knee jerk also.

I want to teach with people who have passion for what they do, and I believe
that passion comes in many forms, some of which would never work for me.  I
work hard to understand that there are many ways to be an effective English
teacher and to remember that classrooms and teachers should be as diverse as
the non-school world.  While I would never advocate incompetence, I have
trouble with colleagues who sit in judgment of others.  I don't sit everyday
in my colleague's classroom watching and listening to everything he does. I
have no clear vision of his competence as a teacher because I am not observing
his performing the craft of teaching.  Meaningful evaluation needs time, not
just once or twice a year for 42 minutes by a harried administrator who may or
may not have personal biases.  An effective evaluation tool should be
something along the lines of a teachers establishing goals and a plan to
attain those goals over a span of time.  Evaluation should be a partnership
which believes in the individual and the possibility of growth.  When an
individual fails to reach a goal, questions should then be asked.  In the
paper last week, there was an article about the state's medical board
requiring several doctor's to retrain because of problems.  Successful
retraining would allow them to continue to practice medicine.  Failure to
retrain or successfully retrain would result in the loss of license.  Maybe
the same idea would work in teaching, although the logistics seem overwhelming.

My views have been colored by your leadership position in the union.  I have
seen administrators poorly evaluate teachers for reasons other than poor
teaching.  I have been with caring, dedicated teachers devastated by
evaluations that were unfair.  I too have counseled teachers about their
rights to due process when the administrator's evidence is convincing and
properly documented.  "Good" teachers and "bad" teachers all deserve the
opportunity to defend themselves.

This is not a very coherent 5 PE, and my disjointed comments are prompted by
other responses on the list serve to this issue as well as several years of
being in the union trenches.  Teacher bashing is a favorite sport lately, and
I will confess to having little tolerance for  "good" teachers bashing "bad"
teachers.

Probably too much said . . .

Annie

Like many Massachusetts educators, I believe in the goals that our
educational reform is trying to achieve, but not in the way that these goals
are being implemented. The teacher test is just one more example. In the
first place, all the headlines in Massachusetts keep saying "Teachers Fail
to Make the Grade". These folks are NOT teachers .. they are
about-to-be-college graduates whose career goal is teaching. We wouldn't
call them journalists or business managers until they had a job, so why are
they teachers? The exam is one small part of getting a job in Massachusetts
where every opening gets 100-150 applicants. Becoming a teacher here is no
mean feat even without a certification test. The next screw-up was not
telling people that the test was "for real" until a week before they took
it. The third was releasing the results to everyone in the world EXCEPT the
poor folks who took the test! The applicants still don't know as of today
what their own scores were. They are reading these headlines, but they don't
know how they did. And their chance to re-take the test is next Saturday!
Finally, the state has been releasing egregious examples of "errors" from
the test. Now it turns out that these errors were not made by actual
test-takers. The testing service won't say whether they are examples from
other states or just bad examples that they made up (supposed so we would
know what a wrong answer looks like).
   This implementation is a little like the test we subjected 10th graders
to in May. It took us 17 days to administer (The state packaged the whole
test together so the only way to administer it logistically was to use
English classes --- 17 days worth!) The kids had to do 6 sections of English
(even the SAT can figure out how well you can use your verbal skills in 3).
    It isn't the principle of higher standards that bothers me -- it is the
way that we have decided to get them by beating people over the head. I also
resent the implication that "teachers" are dumb because one test had
terrible results. I will match my skills on that test with our state
politicians any day.
Anyway, thanks for listening folks. I had to say my piece.
Sharon Inger (who has a PhD in English from Boston University where John
Silber, our Massachusetts education czar was president, and who now teaches
9th and 11th graders in
Barnstable MA)

<<I have just taken the NTE for English recently, and I must say that
although I believe I'm quite familiar with prescriptive grammar, the
grammar section was quite difficult and I believe it was my lowest score
on the test!  Here is what I believe the cause is: It's been YEARS since
I had to recall specific grammatical names! Sure, we had to take Grammar
& Usage as part of our requirements for an English degree,

You've hit the nail on the head for me. For my BA in English here in TN, I had
to take 2 semesters of a sophomore level (or higher) foreign language
class,and the teacher I had for Spanish was talking about gerunds and
participles and stuff, and even though I know the basic grammar terminology
(like noun, verb, adjective, etc.) I had totally forgotten what a gerund and
participle were, because the last time I saw that stuff was in 7th and 8th
grade. (My Spanish teacher in college was angry because none of the 20-some
people in my class knew what some parts of speech were. He ended up copying us
a chart that had the names of parts of speech, their definitions, and
examples.)  I took my English NTEs in spring of '97, and I had the same
problem you had--the grammar business because I'd forgotten so much.
 Just to introduce myself--I'm in the process of looking for a job. I
graduated in December with a BA in English, and I'm certified in English and
Geography, both grades 7-12, and Elementary Education, grades 1-8. I'm hoping
to grab something--I worked 6 months as an aide, and although that isn't a bad
job, it doesn't pay that much. Tracy :o)
 

I think a lot of the hoopla boils down to what sells newspapers and boosts
television news ratings. Bad news sells. If there's a big fight among the
students at our school, you can be sure it will make the nightly local news.
If we had a hundred National Merit finalists, the media wouldn't waste a
minute reporting it.  I guess it's my night to vent. Sorry.

Linda

First of all, in response to Peggy Smith, Ohio does have an NTE
requirement. She must be one of the teachers who was grandfathered out
of taking it. (please see www.ode.gov.) If the teacher who didn't know
what a metaphor was is an English teacher, it is unfortunate that she is
teaching. However, if this teacher is a Biology teacher, then I
understand her ignorance. If teachers are to be tested in order to be
certified, I think that they should be tested in their subject area. I
do not think it is realistic to expect that every teacher will be an
expert in every area. If you believe in Gardner's Multiple Intelligence
Theory, then you should also agree!

I believe that if a teacher was prepared at an accredited college and
graduated, then there should be no test of their ability. Additionally,
if we must have a test to become a teacher, then it should be a national
test. Some states, for example Colorado, have their own test and it
mirrors the NTE question for question. The only difference between the
two tests is Colorado's test is longer and three times as expensive.

 There are excellent teachers who couldn't pass a standardized test to
save their lives, and there are horrible teachers who are only teaching
because they could pass a test. How fair is that? Why do we believe that
standardized tests are bad for our students, but not for our teachers as
well?

I, too, like Sherry and Chet, suspect the validity of the Massachusetts teacher test.  However, one of the dilemmas we have when we question the validity of a test is that we have no way of proving our point unless we can look at all of the test items, and since most standardized tests are "protected" or "secured" tests, we cannot examine and publish a criticism of the items.   It's a Catch 22.   You can't see whether a test is valid unless you make the contents publicly available to the critics, but if the contents are made public then the test loses its validity by having its contents revealed.

Still, I'm willing to guess that a test that is finding 50% or more of teachers incompetent is highly suspect.   I do not see that kind of incompetence around me, unless I myself am so incompetent that my incompetent buddies seem normal.  Also the politically charged rhetoric of those interpreting the test results also makes me suspicious.   I'd love to see a copy  of the test.   I'm curious.   Who wrote this test and with what agenda?

Lind Williams

Sentences without subjects and/or verbs?  Just imagine.   The horror of it !  To even think of communicating like that !  The shame.   The shame.  ;)

Parse that,
Lind

Well, the test would only be "blown" in that way if critics examined or
published the actual test items on the real test.  But standardized test items
should be keyed to objectives, and critics could insist on examining the
objectives for content validity (ie, does the test indeed test those things
which teachers ought to know).  Also, it's common with K-12 standardized
testing companies to have practice tests available so that students can become
accustomed to the various item formats, etc, before taking the real test.
(ACT and ETS don't publish practice tests, I don't think, but go into any
bookstore and you'll find that Arco and other companies publish preparation
guides with sample items.)  So perhaps the Massachusetts teachers could insist
on seeing a sample test with items *like* the ones on the real test.  And that
ought not affect the test's validity in any way.

Just thinking out loud.....and I hasten to add that I would be the first in
line to agree that standardized tests are fraught with problems.  In the late
80s and early 90s, I used to work for an educational test publisher as a test
editor.  Some of the things I witnessed in regard to test construction and how
districts (mis)use test results and so forth totally appalled me.  I thank my
lucky stars that I'm back in the classroom...I have taken a massive salary cut
but at least I can sleep at night with a clear conscience!  :)

Joyce

Leif Fearn wrote:

Jeff:
         I can understand that a biology teacher might not know what a
metaphor is, but I don't want him or her teaching anybody, at least not in

FWIW,  the biology teachers I know (and since I am one, I know many!)   almost
certainly know what a metaphor is.  I'm in two departments at once, and you'd
be surprized what the members of one department know about the subject area of
another department.

alyssa

Jeff:
 I can understand that a biology teacher might not know what a
metaphor is, but I don't want him or her teaching anybody, at least not in
any school where my children attend, nor in any school where the children
of anyone I care about attend, nor in any school attended by any children
and youth whom I expect to grow up and run the republic.  I don't want the
English teachers to find the nature of science foreign territory, either,
and I want both of them to be able to find Switzerland on a map without
searching Africa first.  Teachers are supposed to be sufficiently
knowledgeable to handle relatively rudimentary general knowledge
represented by a term such as "metaphor."

Leif Fearn

I am not familiar with the Massachusetts Teacher Test, don't know what it
measures, if it's valid and reliable. Whether the right instrument or not,
however, it's not unreasonable that we teachers be held accountable for
competence in the very skills we are supposed to be teaching. It should be
not "teachers who can't, teach" but "teachers who can't, not teach." No
competent teacher need fear a fair assessment.

Tom

it's not unreasonable that we teachers be held accountable for
competence in the very skills we are supposed to be teaching<

Bravo, Tom!  That was well-said.

Karen

districts (mis)use test results and so forth totally appalled me.  I thank my
lucky stars that I'm back in the classroom...I have taken a massive salary cut
but at least I can sleep at night with a clear conscience!  :)

Joyce
 

In the midst of discussing the Massachusetts Test and its resulting
controversy, Joyce, you have hit upon one of the reasons why we as a
profession suffer from deplorable teacher test results. (...and I'm not
even talking about our students on this point.)

Jeff Borel wrote:

My point is, and I will repeat it again, these tests are ridiculous. If
a university is doing its job to educate future teachers, a test should
be unnecessary! Places like Colorado and Massachusettes are just looking

i tend to agree with you...and throw california into your list of states requiring
multiple tests for perspective teachers.

alyssa

     The points you make about the Massachusetts Teachers Test are correct,
     Joyce.  Users of the test have a right to know.  One of the items in
     the Code of Fair Testing Practices in Education (a document developed
     by the professional ed. measurement associations) states that "test
     developers should provide either representative samples or complete
     copies of test questions, directions, answer sheets, manuals, and
     score reports to qualified users."
 
     ACT, for example, publishes a sample test booklet each year and provides
     a copy of that booklet to each student who registers for the ACT
     Assessment.  The test used is a retired one, no longer secure.  (I'm a
     content specialist at ACT, still struggling with that unclear conscience.)
     I'm fairly certain that ETS offers the same service.  The test
     developers responsible for the Mass. Teachers Test should do the same.
 
                                         David Duer

Well Leif...

With your unattainable expectations, you will be hard pressed to find
ANY teachers at all that you deem worthy of teaching your children.
Personally, I will be happy with a biology teacher who knows his subject
back and forth AND can teach it to MY child in an understandable way.
That is why we have MATH teachers, ENGLISH teachers, SPANISH teachers
and the like. By the way, where is it that you teach? A university?

My point is, and I will repeat it again, these tests are ridiculous. If
a university is doing its job to educate future teachers, a test should
be unnecessary! Places like Colorado and Massachusettes are just looking
for another way to drain the pocketbooks of already financially strapped
teachers. If we must have a test at all, why can't it be a truly
reciprocal, national test?

SLB

P.S. I have sucessfully passed (with flying-colors) both the NTE and the
Colorado PLACE tests, so I am not speaking out of bitterness, just
disbelief.

Hi, David. You know, now that I think of it, I am pretty sure that when I took
the SATs (longer ago than I care to admit <g), ETS either sent me an old
sample test or I bought one they offered for sale when I registered to take
the test.  So yes, I can't imagine that ETS doesn't do the same.

Sorry about your unclear conscience, but I'm quite sure ACT (as a non-profit
organization) is immensely more ethical than the K-12 educational test
publisher I worked for was.  When I worked there, one of the ways I used to
assuage my own conscience was to tell myself, "We tell the school districts
over and over to not use the results alone for placement purposes, or for
tracking students, or for [insert the crime here.]  It isn't our fault they
don't do as we say and misuse the results."  But we sure would still sell the
tests to districts that we knew were using the tests in ways they oughtn't to
be used.  I also knew that our sales reps, off the record of course, were
telling school administrators to go ahead and use the tests in those ways
because "everybody else does it."  All just to get a sale. Yuk.

So you must live in Iowa City!  I used to love to hang out in the Sanctuary
when I lived there!  Have to admit, though...I like northern California much
better (none of those snowy, wind-chill of 60 below Iowa winters).  ;)

Joyce

I'll be happy enough if all teachers were competent writers who saw it as
their responsibility to teach writing across the curriculum, each in his or
her own subject area. Writing is a skill that transcends all disciplines,
and poor writing should not be tolerated in any class, regardless of the
subject area. I'd remove teachers who couldn't or wouldn't and replace them
with those who could and would.

I agree that a certain academic and cultural literacy should be expected
and required of all teachers. All knowledge is related, not isolated in
little cells. More team teaching and panels of educators talking about how
the disciplines relate and overlap could facilitate this approach.

Tom

Jeff:
 Well yes, I confess.  I am a university type.  I used to be a
public school teacher, but now my work in such classrooms is limited to
weekly demos for my students.  I used to be young, as well, but having
begun to teach in 1960, I'm only in my middle earlies now. I'm one of those
sixties people who believe teachers ought to be, first, well educated, then
sufficiently  specialized to handle their specific professional
responsibilities in a workmanlike manner. I've found that none of us is
doing all that terrific a job with respect to the general informational
literacy that constitutes the prior knowledge on which both reading and
writing rest.
 I don't carry a brief for the tasteless and reductionistic measures
that pass as general information gate-keepers for prospective teachers.
Nevertheless, I expected, selected, and got, teachers for my children in
whose company my children flourished, both generally and specifically.  I
have a short fuse for folks who propose to teach and don't have control
over eighth grade vocabulary.  They aren't bad people. I'd just prefer that
they be doctors or auto mechanics and leave the hard work for people who
are better educated.
Leif

Tracy,

I'm in TN, too!  I'm from East TN...  I can say the same for the two
years I had to take of Spanish.  There were things called gerunds and
subjunctives, but we didn't know what it meant...we just repeated what we
heard.  It was too confusing to try to recall specific grammatical terms
and apply it to Spanish!

I hope you are fortunate in finding a job.  With all of your
endorsements, I would think you shouldn't have a problem!

Michelle

I do agree that teachers should have vocabulary that extends beyond
the boundaries of the 8th grade. And, I'm not saying teachers should
not be well educated. On other matters, I suppose we should agree to
disagree.

I have enjoyed our banter; hopefully, we will be able to discuss other
issues in the future.

Thanks,
Sandy

As to your comment about basic cultural literacy, who decides what is
mandatory to know and what is acceptable not to know? My opinions of
what is basic knowledge and your opinions of what is basic knowledge
might vary. Would you agree?

Thanks
Sandy
 

Yes, you make a good point. Could we both agree to yield to a third authority?

For "basic knowledge" I'd agree, for example, to the info contained in "The
Dictionary of Cultual Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know" by E.D.
Hirsch, Jr., Joseph F. Kett, and James Trefil.

Would you? If not, why?

Tom

Dear Tom,

Absolutely! A teacher in my school puts a cultural literacy topic from
this dictionary on the board each week that the kids must research for
credit. It has worked really well for her.

I believe whole heartedly in knowledge, I just wonder if we will ever
have a standard base with which we will all be content.

Thanks,
Sandy

 Tom Stroup wrote:

For "basic knowledge" I'd agree, for example, to the info contained in "The

Dictionary of Cultural Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know" by E.D. Hirsch, Jr., Joseph F. Kett, and James Trefil.

Would you? If not, why?
Tom

---------

Tom,

You didn't ask me, but you might like to know that shortly after Hirsch's Cultural Literacy was published, I wrote to him, asking why he spends much of a chapter bashing Rousseau's theories of education. Hirsch wrote back that he had never read Rousseau -- he was basing his arguments on what colleagues told him. For me, that closed Hirsch's book(s).I do believe that we should be able to agree on some common materials, ideas, concepts, etc. that everyone should be taught about, but I much prefer Bloom's The Closing of the American Mind to any of Hirsch's stuff.

Ed V.

Ed,
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate how you feel. Hey, I'm not in love
with Hirsch's book, either (my edition even lists the wrong capital for
Florida!), and I don't understand why he bashes Rousseau's theories of
education. But I believe Hirsch et. al. have the right idea in trying to
define and establish a "canon" of cultural literacy--not perfect, but a
start. I'm ambivalent over the vulgar commericialization "Cultural
Literary" and its offshoots.

I like Allan Bloom's "The Closing of the American Mind," too, and have been
inspired by some of his other books, as well.

We in literature perhaps ought to be more concerned with literary canon and
less with overall cultural literacy anyway. Whenever I want to be inspired
to the point of tears for being a teacher literature, especially great
literature, all I have to do is read from Harold Bloom's eloquent defense,
"The Western Canon: The Books and School of the Ages."
Tom
Newport News, Virginia

Perhaps this discussion has run its course, but I found a site with sample
questions for the test if anyone cares to try them:
<A HREF="http://www.doe.mass.edu/teachertest/698_PR.html">Massachusetts
Teacher Tests</A> If the blue print didn't appear, the URL is
http://www.doe.mass.edu/teachertest/698_PR.html

Mary Filak