<<
I haven't had a chance to check the archives yet, but I am wildly
curious
about how you evaluate student writing if you don't "grade" papers.
>>
A former English teacher I met told me his secret, which I am going
to try
next year. Tired of rewriting the students' papers for them,
he started
conferencing with them. He put a transparency over the page and,
with the
student at his side, pointed out and marked errors. When he was
finished, he
gave the student back the unmarked paper to correct but kept the transparency.
I think that is a great idea! The kid gets help, the teacher
satisfies
his/her "need to mark," and the kid still owns the paper.
Brenda in Atlanta area
Jean Azemove
> A written piece is a personal, creative work. Do not make corrections on it.
Wow -- I definitely don't agree with that in all circumstances.
When students write an
essay for me, I make corrections all over it, and then they go back
and rewrite it. With
100+ students, I just don't have time for conferences. Plus,
my freshmen aren't mature
enough to sit quietly while I talk to a student one-on-one.
That being said, when a student turns in a poetry project or something
which IS truly
personal, I generally don't write on the front of it at all, or if
I do, I write in
pencil. I make brief comments on the back, though.
I just can't agree that everything a student writes is creative and personal.
alyssa
Tim
Jean Azemove
Paking
> A couple of my students complained last year because I did not make
enough
> comments on their papers. I gave them rubrics and offered to
sit down with
> them during homerooms or after school to go over their papers with
them, but
> they still wanted me to fill the margins with my comments --- Each
child is
> different.
>
> Pam Craig
WritngTime@xxx wrote:
> Alyssa, wouldn't you agree that everything a student writes is unique?
> Whether the writing is poor, fair, good, or excellent, there is nothing
> exactly like it in the world!
Generally, that's true, but I don't think a piece of student writing
should be
exempt from written comments just because it's unique.
Alyssa
Pam Craig
Great idea! I'll try it. I'm not optimistic about some of my students
buying a tape (except in honors classes) or their playing it back to
study
revision. But if it's worked with you, it's certainly worth a try.
I
encourage them to take notes and ask them to repeat back to me what
I've
said (they may refer to notes, if any). Thanks for the suggestion.
Tom
A student's excessive body fat may also be "creative and personal" but
it
may also be unhealthy and a source of low self-esteem, and maybe a
little
trimming down would help the student (eating habits, exercise). The
key to
this, as with all criticism, is how we can do it in a way that's
constructive, not destructive.
Tom
Jean Azemove
Jean Azemove
In a message dated 7/8/98 3:24:08 AM, Tom wrote:
<<The key to this, as with all criticism, is how we can do it
in a way that's
constructive, not destructive.>>
> A written piece is a personal, creative work. Do not make
corrections on it.
> During a private student-teacher conference, discuss errors and show
correct
> examples on a separate piece of paper. Ask the student to make
his/her own
> corrections while you observe.
> To keep the focus perfectly clear, only work on one major error
during each
> conference.
>
> Jean Azemove
>
This, of course, is ideal. Unfortunately, it is quite difficult with
a
group of essays that have no sentences or paragraphs, or focus that
keeps
changing voice and contains many subject verb agreement error, has
serious
problems with capitalization and spelling and so on and so forth. Where
does one begin and how does one determine whether the many errors reflect
laziness and/or past teachers who allowed the numerous errors to persist
without taking some sort of corrective action? Does one use a diagnostic
writing assignment to assess the general level of the class and then
group
students according to ablility? Or does one identify a couple of the
most
prevalent problems and teach a mini-lesson addressing them?
There have been some excellent suggestions offered by many of you on
this
list, but they must reflect the reality of our work load and the
curriculum we are charged with covering. Additionally, some of us are
concerned that the 5pe will stifle our students' creative juices, while
some of us deal with student who refuse to bring pen and paper to class.
Clearly, we are addressing specific problems to quite a disparate group
of
students, which makes generalizations difficult to apply.
In the first place, a high school teacher shouldn't have to teach students
about paragraph indentation and how to write a complete sentence nor
some
of the other basics, but many of us receive students who have not learned
them (I'm not saying they weren't taught them). Secondly, it is usually
the English teacher who is expected to teach writing. The more enlightened
administrator requires all core subject teachers to teach writing,
but I
suspect the responsibility still falls upon the English teachers. Finally,
if we are going to offer an ideal way of teaching writing, the workshop
approach works best with a smaller class, frequent conferences, and
available computers. How many of us work under such ideal conditions?
I certainly don't. At best, I consider myself fortunate if I can focus
my
instruction on how my students can best organize their ideas. But where
I
presently teach, that can be done with several students at most in
each
class. The rest have quite a difficult time presenting ideas in a
literate, coherent, and focused manner. Also, for most of my students,
a
finished essay (to them) means that during a class period, they have
written something and handed it in. Most get quite upset when I ask
them
to revise, rewrite, or redo, and this obviously does not give me a
well
organized essay.
Gary Latman
Harper High
Chicago
> Tom, I agree with you. That's why I do not write comments in
margins (too
> overwhelming, too damaging), but offer five-minute, failure-free
skill lessons
i can't believe that there's no constructive way to write in the margins.
i also
refuse to believe that every comment (or any comment, for that matter)
that i've
made in the past on a student's paper is destructive just because it's
there.
alyssa
Leif Fearn
School of Teacher Education
Jean Azemove
This past year, for my Honors 10 class, I had the students hand in a
tape with
a creative assignment so that I could orally record my comments/suggestions.
The idea is that I could and would say more/give them more to think
about if I
didn't have to write it all out. For about 1/2 of the class this
was not a
successful mode of teacher response because it was: too personal (having
my
voice in their "spaces", like bedrooms), too much response for them
to absorb,
too oral when they were visual, too "fleeting" because they heard the
comments
once rather than being able to re-read them over and over, too "new"
for them.
For the other 1/2 of the class this was the greatest thing I
had ever done
for them. They loved hearing my voice - the tone, the immediacy,
the pauses
as I gathered my thoughts, the excitement I expressed when I "connected"
to a
word or phrase - all of the opposites that the "didn't like" half expressed.
I actually realized a great deal about the learning styles of my students
based on their reactions to the tape idea. For the reminder of
the year, they
had a choice: either having me record my comments on a tape or getting
hand-written comments back on their papers (usually in red ink).
All my
students seemed happier about the process - the received the
comments/suggestions in a form that they were comfortable with, and
I liked
the variety. Actually, I liked the oral comments better because
I didn't have
to push a pen - late at night I get very LAZY. One major problem
with the
tape was revision. When my students revise, I have them hand
in all the
previous drafts so that I can refresh my memory as to what they wrote
and to
what I commented. Re-listening to the tape was a burden sometimes
because it
took a while or I was not in a place where i could play a tape recorder,
or I
didn't have a tape player with me. But, all in all, it was a
good experiment
that I would be willing to repeat.
Always,
Annie
I agree with you. The students who complained are ones whose writing
skills
were weak, yet they refused to put forth the effort to try to improve
them.
In class, we went over the rubrics before and after every writing assignment.
I used student examles of superior essays and discussed the issues
that should
have been addressed -- the fact that I did not write an abundance of
notes in
their margins was just an excuse..... still we need to remember that
some
students want the marks, others don't -- we will run across all kinds
of
students and no matter which method we choose, some students will complain
about it.
Pam
I'm trying to figure out how to take you post. I think I must
be
misinterpreting the tone in your response.
I know two superb art teachers who carefully critique their students'
work and
would be appalled to think that other teachers imagined that they accepted
anything the students produced. Whether they write on the art
work or provide
some other method of careful analysis, the students' work is certainly
analyzed and graded.
My comment that some students request more information on their papers
was not
a judgemental statement. I was simply relaying an observation.
I can assure
you that I am very careful in insuring that my students receive many
and
varied strategies to help them learn how to write effectively -- perhaps
I
misread your post when I felt you implied that their need for more
information
was a result of my not addressing the issue of what was required in
the first
place.
While I am waiting for the "magic in the classroom" to occur, I believe
I will
continue to try to provide opportunities for the students to improve
their
writing through constant practice, rubrics, evaluation, and the opportunity
to
re-write. I'm not sure that I agree that students assimilate
skills through
magic -- but I am sure they can assimilate skills through practice
and
encouragement.
Pam
Leif Fearn
Gosh! Unlike Alyssa, I found this analogy really off putting!
Seems
that there's a world of difference between working for the good of
the
students and urging them along with a hearty "this is for your own
good." Are there any really constructive ways to tell someone
to skip
the Twinkies and channel surfing in favor of twigs and berries and
a
rousing bike ride around the block? If the person in question
were a
loved one, it would make sense to start the discussion with , "I love
every bit of you exactly the way you are, but I worry so much about
your
health that I want to discuss your weight with you even if it means
risking hurting you." If a doctor were taking on the case, I
suppose
she could be much more explicit about physical risks, but some measure
of compassion would be called for there, too, I think--course I'm choosy
about docs! Is there a parallel between such situations and our
relationships with students? Is there a bit of both the concerned
relative or friend and the clinical but compassionate doctor in each
of
us? I don't know. As I said, the analogy hit me wrong for
some
nebulous reason that I'm still trying to get to coalesce.
Hmm. Maybe the problem is that we so often pressure people to
lose
weight and eat better *not* for any particularly noble reason, but
because we want them to be more attractive in the most narrowly defined
(pun intended) of ways, or because we want to seem more appealing when
they accompany us. We want them to be more decorative, perhaps,
more
indicative of our own worth, better guages of *our* success.
Plus, we
often make moral judgements about those who fail to fall within that
narrow realm of acceptable body types. Fat means laziness, lack
of
self-control, self-hatred, failure to exercise due discipline.
Just as there are many body types, though, there are endless varieties
of students. Once in a while a student really is plain old lazy
and may
even thank us for shoving her off of the mental couch and snatching
away
that remote to replace it with books, pen, and keyboard. Conversely,
lots of writing problems aren't aptly represented by the "it's for
their
own good" analogy, although this explanation is a popular one in the
faculty lounge.
I've overheared and even, I'm ashamed to say, participated in far too
many of those "students today are so aggressively apathetic that they
think they deserve B's just for parking their rears in the desks each
day" type conversations. Could be that my aversion to them is
what
makes me so sensitive to this comparison. What I would dearly
love to
think of as the best part of me as a teacher just doesn't (can't,
*won't*!) buy the theory of pervasive apathy. Idealist that I
am, I
keep holding onto the notion that the vast majority of students really
do want to learn. They slink and slouch and fuss and all, to
be sure,
but so what? Generally, I just tease them out of it: "Yup.
We really
are going to write five or six essays in this class, and keep a reading
journal, and give class presentations, and a whole bunch of other stuff,
too. Write? In a Composition course? Revolutionary
concept, that.
Work? In college? Who'd have guessed that _Animal House_
wasn't
entirely documentary?" Plus, they are right, you know.
Learning
really can be hard. Writing really is effortful. Constructing
academic
argument is no cake walk. Comprehending and synthesizing texts
isn't a
snap for most of us. Fun to me, unabashed geek that I am, and
fun for
them at least some of the time, too, I hope (though way different from
food fight or beer bash fun), but the stuff can bruise your brain a
bit,
too. Not nearly enough coffee swilling in _Animal House_ for
it to be
realistic, you see.
If I were forced to stick with the weight analogy, I think I'd say the
task of a writing teacher is more to guide students into the kind of
self-acceptance and respect Jean has descibed than to don jogging suit
and whistle and lead the calisthenics. One of my colleagues at
C.O.D.
recently published a book on fitness and health for women who fall
outside of that narrow range described above. She begins working
on the
acceptance first, than teaches that fitness and slimness aren't the
same.
So, I'm back to searching out that elusive balance Lind mentioned.
I do
want intellectual fitness or health for my students, but I also realize
that it comes in lots of "brain types." Ectomorph, mesomorph,
or
endomorph can be physically fit and beautiful. Painstaking planner,
last-minute drafter, eager reviser, and foot-dragging editor can all
become marvellous, albeit utterly different, writers. (There's
a
connection to the technology discussion here, too, I suppose.
Yellow
legal pads filled with scrawls and arrows, typed drafts literally cut
and pasted into shape, and electronically processed texts clicked and
dragged hither and yon until their core shape finally emerges are all
fine applications of our available technologies.) One size really
doesn't fit all. We can try to bully, shame, love, or praise
students
into shape, I suppose, but either way, we'd best think about *whose*
shape, and why.
Kathy at C.O.D.
During the first semester, when I'm teaching directed essay unit, I
do not
grade each paper. Instead, I assign a paper a week designed for
the
students to practice a particular element of writing - inviting
introductions, fully developed body paragraphs, appropriate transitions,
effective conclusions, etc.
I give each student full credit for completing each assignment.
I proceed
to write a great deal of commentary.
During these weeks, we have writing workshops and at least one individual
conference. Some of the papers are revised;others are not.
The student
may be asked only to revise a portion.
The final paper in the unit is graded using a rubric or check list of
the
elements we had practiced the previous weeks. That paper has
only dots in
the margins to indicate errors. I usally make two comments on
the rubric -
a commendation and a recommendation.
When the students get back this essay, they write a composition analysis
which is kept in their portfolios. The analysis asked them to
respond to
the following questions:
What pleased you about the work you've done on this essay. (They may
not
mention "'cause I got a A")
What surprised/disappointed about your work on this essay?
What kind of errors did you make on this paper? (We develop a list
of
things: Grammar, punctuation, usage, verb tenses, agreement,
spelling,
etc., didn't follow instructions, made careless errors, etc.)
What must you do to maintain or improve your quality of writing?
Later in the year, I sometimes use only a rubric with comments, and
enter
the grade in my book. I ask the students to grade themselves.
What do you
think you earned on this paper? Why? If they are interested
in the grade,
they're invited to come after school to compare their evaluation with
mine.
In this way I've helped the students to pay more attention to
what writing
they've done than to what grade they've earned AND I still provide
the
administration and parent required grade.
Hope this helps,
Anna
----------
> From: Maura Keaney
>
> Nancy said...
> >Do I do this on student papers? Absolutely not. I don't
write on
>>student papers at all. I don't even grade them. I talk to kids
about their papers,
> >but I don't put comments on them. The closest I get to writing
actual
> >comments is sometimes putting sticky notes on student papers.
Those are
> >more for me so that I know what I want to point out to a student--whether
it
> >is praise or suggestion.
>
> I haven't had a chance to check the archives yet, but I am wildly
curious
> about how you evaluate student writing if you don't "grade" papers.
I use
> rubrics, but I feel ultimately pressured to assign a grade to the
papers as
> well (which usually makes the rubric useless - kids care more about
the
> "grade" than the assessment). I read a previous post about
commenting on
> papers, and I'd love to get a discussion going on comments and grading.
Do
> you read all of the papers that your students write? I can't
imagine
> having the time to conference with each student individually for
every
> single paper they write. This is going to be my fifth year
teaching, but I
> still haven't come up with a reading/commenting/conferencing/grading
system
> that works for me (and for my parents and principal, who demand GRADES).
>
> Thanks to anyone who cares to reply,
>
> Maura K.
Okay, here's something else I do. I tell my students to "look
for the
sunshine." I grade creative writing and journals with a yellow
highlighter.
All I do is highlight words or phrases (sometimes whole paragraphs)
that are
particularly well-used or that just "jump out at me." The kids
look for those
markings. I conference with the students on how to improve the
piece, but the
piece ultimately belongs to the student. I make extensive use
of rubrics,
which I either attach to the paper itself or to the inside of the student's
writing folder.
Brenda in Atlanta area
> relationships with students? Is there a bit of both the concerned
> relative or friend and the clinical but compassionate doctor in each
of >
i sure hope so. when i encounter students who aren't succeeding,
i always try to
talk to them one-on-one and find out (if i can) what the problem is
and what _we_
can do to fix it. half the time, i feel like a cross between
a parent and a
psychologist.
alyssa
> Alyssa, the number of comments made in margins is damaging, overwhelming,
not
> each specific comment.
ahhh...now that i can understand. no one likes to receive a paper bleeding from red ink.
alyssa
Note: An advanced writer might appreciate a few comments on a separate
piece
of paper.
Leif Fearn
> Early in my career, I discovered that students made wonderful progress
in
> writing when I stopped putting comments on their paper, stopped
asking them to
> rewrite (only on rare occasions), stopped requiring a certain
number of
> words/paragraphs/pages, stopped grading papers, stopped telling
them what to
> write (encouraged them to come up with their own ideas), stopped
demanding
> that they complete assignments (but allowed them to go on to
something new),
> stopped working on skills during the writing session (only
during mini- lessons
> and private conferences), and stopped telling them that I thought
they could
> do better.
I find this to be utterly fascinating. I mean, it *sounds* so
wonderful and
freeing for students! But...and maybe I'm just unimaginative...how
does this
play out in the classroom? I mean, do you just tell your students
every now
and then, "Okay, I want you all to write me a paper!" and then they
turn in
something that you look over and then hand back with no comments?
And no
grade? If you haven't recorded grades for writing assignments
all along, how
do you grade the students (and justify the grade given) at the end
of the term
or quarter or semester, as your school district surely must require
turning in
grades? I hope I don't sound critical or facetious; I mean these
as genuine
and serious questions. :)
Thanks,
Joyce
> If we want students to stop seeing red, maybe we should eliminate
the red pen?
>
that's why i like to use pink or purple ink. :)
> If we're going to use comments/corrections in the margins, etc., perhaps
we
> need to do a better job of preparing students for them: discuss why
we do
> it, what they mean, etc. Maybe we just focus on a limited number
of items
i tell all of my students that they can rewrite their essays as many
times as they
need to, so they see my comments as helpful since it gives them guidance
in their
rewrites.
> (It also works in objectives of listening/oral skills.) The reality
is that
> I often get annoyed and distracted by what the other students are
doing
> meantime (which is not what I've assigned them to do! Maybe I'm assigning
>
this is the problem i have with student conferences. my students
won't come
before or after school or during lunch. with my kids, we definitely
have to
practice SSR!
alyssa
Teacher-written comments in the margins of course affect different students
differently. Many will see them negatively, especially from red-penned
teachers who are free bleeders. ("Like, why should I even try to save
this
poor puppy? It's already been beat to death.") Others, especially the
stronger academic students with higher self-esteem and maturity, will
seem
them positively, or, at least, as a guide for revision/editing, whether
they like them or not.
If we want students to stop seeing red, maybe we should eliminate the red pen?
If we're going to use comments/corrections in the margins, etc., perhaps
we
need to do a better job of preparing students for them: discuss why
we do
it, what they mean, etc. Maybe we just focus on a limited number of
items
per paper, especially early on. Maybe use a different color of ink?
Or at
least use a good color for some positive comments (green, gold, purple,
etc.).
Maybe if we'd require that students number their lines (every 5th: 5,
10,
15, etc.), we could more easily write comments on a separate sheet
or use a
checklist that allows us to identify specific problems by line numbers.
I
know I can keyboard responses faster than I can hand-write them, and
they
look better, and I then retain a record, can print out a second for
myself,
etc. This is especially good for teachers lucky enough to have a laptop.
I like the idea of merely placing a check by the line and letting them
figure it out. Maybe a good idea to set up peer evaluation in small
groups?
Some of my students figure out and correct some of the errors, but
many do
not (or will not).
I like the idea of conferences, with or without a tape recorder running.
(It also works in objectives of listening/oral skills.) The reality
is that
I often get annoyed and distracted by what the other students are doing
meantime (which is not what I've assigned them to do! Maybe I'm assigning
the wrong things? Maybe I'm too sensitive?). I've tried scheduling
conferences after school and during planning, and I can get some done
that
by, but many students won't do it. Of course, I get better results
in
advanced classes.
Obviously there's no one best way to evaluate/grade compositions. We
need
to try a variety of methods and use those that are most effective,
which
may vary from class to class or year to year.
If only we had smaller classses . . .if only we had composition to teach
.
. .if I only had a brain!
Tom Stroup
I have saved every paper I've written and had returned to me from 11th
grade through graduate school. I love to read through them occasionally,
and the COMMENTS mean a lot to me. Even vague comments like "good"
and
"right!" in the margins were immensely valuable. Years after
I wrote my HS
senior thesis, I went back and revised it, improved it, and built upon
it
using the comments of my AP English teacher. [Not for credit - for
me!!]
Some of the most valuable learning experiences from English professors
in
college came in the form of written responses to my writing.
I've considered the tape recorded commenting method before, but haven't
tried it yet. I don't want to reject it until I try it, but when
I look
back on my own experience as a student, I doubt that I would have saved
cassette tapes of response from my teachers. But I do have their
comments.
My favorite professor at Boston University, Dr. Celia Millward, died
three
years ago. I read her comments on my papers with as much love
as I do her
letters. Sure, I recall much of what we talked about in one-on-one
conferences. But I HAVE her comments forever. I don't have
her voice
anymore.
I see a major difference between COMMENTS and EDITING. A number
of people
have made reference to "correcting" papers, which I don't see as valuable.
If a student is in the editing stage of the writing process and asks
me to
help edit his/her paper, then I will "correct" errors. Otherwise,
the
correctness of a students paper is assessed using a rubric. I
imagine it
would be hurtful to get a paper back and find that a teacher had rewritten
parts of it (reworded things, etc.).
Most of my papers were written using a computer. If I want my
own copy
without comments, I'll just print out another copy. I don't think
it is
violating a work of art when people respond in writing to my writing.
The
only exception I can think of is if it is a one-of-a-kind product,
like an
illustrated poem. If students give you their work with the understanding
that you may respond in writing, why would this be so terrible?
As long as
both student and teacher understand mutual expectations, it seems like
many
different methods of evaluation and response could work.
On the other hand....I never have ****time**** to comment much on student
work. I keep bringing piles of papers home but can't get through
them
quickly because I'm writing comments. Then the kids suffer because
I'm
hanging on to their work for a long time. I'm still struggling
to find a
balance, and I appreciate all that people have explained about their
methods - I am learning more each day.
One comment as a newbie...I find it *really* offensive when people give
absolute commands about methodology, like "Don't ever write on a student
paper." I think good English teachers come in as many varieties
as do good
students. I've learned from teachers who commented and teachers
who
didn't. Who died and made any one of us the bearer of all the
answers???
the perfect English teacher??? Different teachers succeed using
a variety
of methods.
Thanks for all of the ideas and the food for thought,
Maura K.
Alyssa,
This reminded me of an experience I had with a student in English 103
(our research writing course) last Spring. After a C- on the
first
essay, he went into a snit fit. Wouldn't talk to me, look at
me, do the
work, engage in classroom activities or *anything*. Zippo.
I let him
stew until I figured the emotional energy fueling the snit had about
run
dry--until it had become more a matter of habit or inertia than anything
else--and then I sat down next to him in the lab one day to ask what
was
up. He said he had never earned a C- on an essay before, at which
point
the young man sitting next to him, to whom I will be forever grateful,
piped up with "Oh, I never got a C until I had Mrs. Fitch either."
Bless the boy! Then, I pointed out that my angry young man could
probably recover just as well as his classmate, who was, after all,
taking me again despite the affront. Got a bit of a smile there,
so I
plunged ahead, wondering if a week or two of snit and total
disengagement was really the best means of learning the things that
might help him improve upon that grade. Nope, he decided, probably
not.
Better snap out of it, then? Yup, probably so. Finally,
we agreed
that, should another grade he found disappointing materialize, he'd
come
and talk to me about it. So, we got on with things, he completed
all of
his work in the class, earned a C, stopped by on the last day to
apologize for his behavior, and even cheerfully attended our pizza
party. Nice guy, really, but dealing with him *was* like being
parent
and therapist all rolled into one. Sigh. Thank goodness
he was
basically a good humored sort.
Kathy at C.O.D. (Oh, and have you noticed that Tom has gone totally
culinary on us? Poorboy! <grin>)
Remember this bit from Chet?
> becoming a full professor of
> English requires a slew of assassinations rather than a bag of smarts.
> When the old guys in front of you won't retire so you can move up,
you
> sometimes have to shoot them.
Seems that no one dies and makes us perfect. Rather, we simply
off
those brash enough to disagree with us.
On a more serious note, I loved your description of poring over the
comments on old papers. The two related comments from college
that I
will always remember came from one of my favorite teachers, who was
responding to papers written years apart. The first was a paper
on
"Aunt Jennifer's Tigers" written in an undergrad Intro to Lit course.
I
remember I did get an A, but the only comment that stuck with me was
a
question at the end: "Why was her needle ivory." Yikes!
Careful as I
had tried to be, that one image had escaped my attention. Three
years
later, I took that teacher again in a graduate seminar, which, for
me,
culminated in a paper on Stowe's _Pearl of Orr's Island". This
time,
the end comment said "Aunt Jennifer's Tigers are really roaring."
Man!
I floated for weeks. Best compliment ever, I think, for she not
only
paid attention, she *remembered*. Probably, I should go back
and take
lessons on effective commenting from her. She's one professor
I would
never consider offing.
Do you suppose our students will attach so much significance to our
comments years hence (or in the present, for that matter)? Sobering
responsibility, isn't it?
Kathy at C.O.D.
Terri Cox
I, too, like to look at old essays I've written, particularly ones
graded by one professor from whom I took some honors courses.
He writes
in pencil and his comments are not only constructive, they are often
hilarious! He got so carried away one time, that he wrote a whole
mini-script on the back between the "lit-crit boys" and Hilton Kramer,
whose article was the subject of my essay. But I've seen samples
of
other students' papers, and while his emphasis is not compostition,
he
does give them food for thought and improvement.
I have only taught composition for a short time -- as a student teacher
-- but I tried to make my comments constructive and specific.
I also
asked students, before we conferred, to be prepared with one or two
focus questions and to ask me about any of my comments or marks which
seemed mystifying.
I can't wait to develop my skills, which can only occur when I spend
more and more time with students. I agree with Maura; some strategies
work for some teachers and students, and some do not. But I am
grateful
for and unabashedly steal the numerous ideas that come from the vast
experience represented by this list's members.
Thanks everybody!
Amy Metnick
Margaretville, NY
Jean Azemove
I never said, "Okay, I want you all to write me a paper!" Throughout
the
term, I introduced dozens of enjoyable, meaningful writing activities.
All of
my students were required to try each assignment, but were allowed
to work on
another activity of their choice whenever they were bored with the
assignment
or had nothing more to say.
Your questions are good, but it takes me about 20 hours in my workshops
to
impart the answers that you seek. Might I suggest that you try
a few of the
strategies I listed, and, if you have success, try the others.
I created this
approach when I worked in the elementary classroom and later used it
with
adult ESL/remedial students. Alter the approach to work for you.
Jean Azemove
> Throughout the term, I introduced dozens of enjoyable, meaningful
writing activities. All of
> my students were required to try each assignment, but were
allowed to work on
> another activity of their choice whenever they were bored with
the
> assignment or had nothing more to say.
Ah. Well, this sounds good but it would, unfortunately, not be
possible for
me right now since I'm teaching "developmental" students at the community
college level, and I am *required* to grade each of their writing assignments,
quizzes, etc, and turn that in with my final grades at the end of the
semester. (Of course, short in-class writing activities are not
graded or
marked, just shared and discussed at random with the class as a whole.)
But, all of this discussion of grading and commenting has given me some
ideas
about how to respond to student papers in a less intimidating fashion.
I had
given up the red pen long ago, but I'll admit I have been doing three
things
to students' papers: making editing/marginal comments; making an end
comment;
and filling out and attaching a rubric which had the paper's grade
on it. I
think, instead, I might stop making editing comments altogether and
just put
dots in the margins to indicate the presence of errors. I might
land on one
particular usage issue the student is struggling with and highlight
several
instances of it for discussion in a conference. The only marginal
comments I
will make will be positive ones!
I will make an end comment which discusses the paper's content and
organization only. And, I will fill out and attach a rubric as
usual. But
instead of just handing the paper back, I will hand them back in individual
conferences. Admittedly these will have to be short conferences,
but I can
give an in-class writing assignment once every other week and call
students up
to my desk during that hour for the return of papers.
Hey, it's worth a try anyway. :)
Thanks to the folks on this list for the ideas.
Joyce
Sorry if this reply is outdated; I've been out of town and am
now catching up
again. Jean this looks wonderful and I love it philosophically.
(I really
aspire to becoming a member of NIAVE!) What I need to know is,
how do you
manage to provide grades on progress reports, report cards, etc.
when
asked? Do you give grades on students' papers at all? If
not, are you
required to provide grades for the above mentioned intervals?
I am required
to give grades for progress reports at mid quarter, quarter grades,
and
semester grades. In addition, students athletes have their "eligibility"
assessed every two weeks which requires a grade. In addition
to that, some
students are on a contract with their parents (this is almost always
freshmen)
under which they come to me each Friday for a signed update on their
grade.
Some even require my signature daily on their lesson planner verifying
that
they have accurately filled out any homework assignments. If
I just hand out
A's and say all of my students are working to thier potential, or even
hand
out other grades based on effort or quizzes over retention of vocabulary,
literary terms, story lines, etc., word would get out quickly that
Mrs.
Hoffman is a pushover. This would not go over well with my collegues,
department chair, principal, etc. I HATE this constantperss for
letter/number
grades. How do you address this?
AZ Cindy
Kim wrote:
<<I HATE this constant press for letter/number grades. How do you address this?>>
Let me preface my remarks below by stating that most of the strategies
I
discuss on ncte-talk were developed in my elementary classroom, where
the
requirement for letter grades was more relaxed.
However, when I taught high school art, I always promised A's to my
240
students on the first day of the semester if they would attend each
day and do
every assignment to the best of their ability. Without the fear
of failure
and with the promise of success, they all worked hard, showed great
interest,
and earned their A's throughout the course and at the end of the term.
When
work is assessed on students' involvement in doing the project (not
on
specific standards), they do their best and meet standards. I
use the same
approach today in the Writing Time courses I offer through three colleges.
I made a recommendation to my daughter, who teaches writing at a college
that
has a strict grading system, that she give only A's and B's.
Kim, you MUST
decide what your educational philosophy and goals are and act accordingly.
Jean Azemove
The one thing that I continue to remember from that book is Cohn's contention that there are messages that both students and teachers send out about incomplete schoolwork that are smokescreens for the real problems of student achievement.
Cohn says in his studies at the Adelphi University Reading and Disability Center, that when students say, "This stuff is boring," concerning their failure to do schoolwork, it is practically always a smokescreen for serious reading skill problems. It is simply a less hurtful way to explain why they are not doing the work. So, Cohn says he will always listen to the student about why the stuff is boring, but to solve the problem he works more on the student than on changing the material.
Correspondingly, when teachers or parents say, "He is just lazy," the perceived laziness is an end result, not the cause. Students we call "lazy" are generally not "lazy" in all aspects of their lives. They can expend considerable energy in things that they feel are worth the effort. Watch a skateboarder practicing his skills, for example. Anyway, Cohn says, "People appear to be lazy when they dread the thing they have to do. They may dread it for any number of reasons, but a primary one is weak skills. When you get at the cause of the problem. . ., the "laziness" disappears.
My point that I think is pertinent to our discussion of grading student papers is that we ought not to be too dismissive of nonperforming students. It is too easy to write them off and move on without them.
It is hard for adolescents who are so concerned about their image to reveal their weak skills. As Jean has said in previous posts, we have to make it safe for them to do so in order for us to take them from where they are and teach them to move forward. We have to create an environment that is safe and failure-free. This does not necessarily mean that we never evaluate or that we lead students to believe that their skills are better than they actually are. But we cannot wish away their lack of preparation. We can only take them from where they are.
Lind Williams
Lind -- This reminds me of something I once read, but can't remember
book/author: The job of the teacher is to discover what a student
doesn't
know in order to begin teaching at that point. The job of the
students is to
hide their ignorance from the teacher.
Sandy
Jean Azemove
<< My point that I think is pertinent to our discussion of grading
student
papers is that we ought not to be too dismissive of nonperforming students.
It is too easy to write them off and move on without them.
>>
Exactly. I tell my students much of what all of you have been
saying; you all
have an "A" to start, rewrite all essays, but I also add that each
student is
graded individually. In other words, an "a" for Sue is not the
same as an "a"
for Joe. Fair is not the same as equal. This is important
for students to
understand. I once had an 18 yr old repeating senior in my junior
English
class rewrite an essay 8 times; from a "D" to a "B." I'll never forget
him, or
how hard he worked. I also had a student (very rebellious--had
thrown things
at teachers before etc.) whose mother called me during the first semester
wondering what i had done to her son to make him trust me and do English
homework. I late found out he was just waiting to see if I would
follow
through on my speech about everyone having an "A" to start. When
he realized
(from the weekly grade print-out) that I was for real--he started
working.............lily
Some of us have commented on this, but I cannot remember the thread
to which
to refer you, so here's the way I handle grading student writing.
I tend to do little editing on drafts of student papers. I rely
more on
peer responses given after direct instruction on what to look for in
the
particular writing assignment.
Rationale - when I edit, the students think if they do all that I comment
on, they automatically will receive an A on the assignment. This
is seldom
the case because the corrections usually are mere grammatical changes.
Sometimes the change the writer makes is a reguritation of what I've
said.
Then the thinking is mine, not theirs. I prefer that the students
learn
through class discussion and peer comments. True, that does not
mean that
students will not get ideas from each other and use them in their own
papers. I just have not figured out a better way to handle commenting
and
grading.
On the final drafts, I mark dots in the margins. If the error
occurs on the
left half of the paper the dot goes there; if the error is on the right,
dot
on right. These dots may refer to grammar, punctuation, spelling,
logic,
diction, misinterpretation of text, etc. A polka dotted paper
need not
necessary mean a low grade. The dots could refer to the repetition
of a
few problems. not a multitude of different ones. Also, making a dot
takes
only a nano-second while writing words and symbols take significantly
longer. On the final draft, my students usually are interested
only in the
grade. If the grade satisfies them, they seldom take time to
read the
comments.
On the other hand, I do use rubrics and grading check sheets.
That is where
I write commendations and recommendations. Sometimes I put on
a grade;
sometimes I don't. Instead, I return the evaluated paper, ask
the students
to take note of the dots and the comments. On the composition
analysis
record sheet they keep in their folders, students are to respond to
the
following questions:
What pleased you about your work on this assignment?
(They may not
mention only the grade.)
What surprised or disappointed you about the work
you did on this
assignment?
What kind of errors did you make that diminished
the quality of this
writing? (Look at the dots. Why
are they there? We will have listed reasons
for the dots: grammar,
spelling, diction, etc.)
What will you do to improve your writing on the
next assignment.
Students then, write what grade they think they earned. They next
consult
with me for confirmation. They usually are within 1/2 grade of
the one I
awarded. After five or ten minutes, I circulate among them answering
questions as they arise. The students are encouraged to have
their
classmates help them identify reasons for the dots, too. I prefer
to give
them time to re-read the assignment and their response to it before
I begin
answering questions. Often, the students can see reasons for
their grades
on their own.
This is a time consuming procedure, but it works in my setting.
By the end
of the first semester, students have developed a more accurate picture
of
their own writing and many have developed a practical plan for improving
not
only their writing, but also their peer responses. Few question
or
challenge their grades. They know why they earn what they get.
Anna
My first class of wonderfully "at-risk" (who isn't--that's what I'd
like to
know) students came up with this system. They really preferred
that I mark up
their papers, but I believe this is out of habit. It could also
be because
they need more sturcture.
3 categories of grading: GPS (grammar, punctuation, spelling)
C (content; specific to each assignment)
S (structure; organization, thesis
etc.)
I take one point off for each error in the GPS category, with a mximum
of -30
points. I circle it and code it with the usual "P" "W" "GR" "RS"
etc. Five
points for each C or S error, with a brief comment at the end of why
they
received that error.
However, I am going to try something new this year. I want them
to write more
and to increase their skills more significantly than in previous years.
(but
I need to grade fewer papers) So...I am working on a rubric/peer
grading
system that will go something like this:
A holistic scale from 50--100 points with criteria for each of the
six levels
(a similar wording to the AP general essay rubric). The first
draft must be read and
evaluated by TWO of their peers or one peer and one parent. I
am finishing up
a "peer essay evaluation form" today. Then they rewrite and edit,
handing in
the final draft for my grading according to the rubric (fewer comments...just
circles for errors and underlines for good commentary). They
will then have
the opportunity (as always) to rewrite that final paper until they
acheive the
grade they want.
Sound crazy? I would love to post it all as soon as I finish it
for the
wonderful critique I am sure to receive here on this list. I
HATE grades and
I tell the kids that, "I don't care about your grades--I care about
your
learning, but I know that you do care about hese stupid letters.
So I will
try and help you acheive the grade you want...but you have to work
for it."
Anyone catch the Ted Sizer article in yesterday's "N.Y. Times" Education
section?
lily
Lily, I like your coding system. Writing comments takes so much
time. I would
be interested in your rubric. I use rubrics but try to emphasize
content over
mechanics which of course takes me back to marking on the papers.
My
experence with peer revison and editing is mixed results. Poor
writing skills
ususally means poor editing skills. I push my students to read
their work out
loud, that seems to make a difference, when they do it.
Gail
Writing program by John Collins. Breaks writing down into five
types (i
have the materials and notes at school, so i may not be completely
accurate): type 1 is similar to journal writing-- not graded,
self-expression, quick opinion about something, can't be right or wrong;
type two is also quick, might be right or wrong, like a check quiz;
type 3
is to be shared, peer edited, graded by focussed correction area (FCA);
type
4 is more extensively edited, shared, etc.; type 5 is writing intended
for
publication. An example of FCA's might be: follows format, no run-ons,
uses
three vocabulary words. If anyone else uses this, please help
me clarify.